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welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world

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with me George Gallow and me gatri this

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week in 1940 London was burning as it

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would for 58 consecutive Nights by the

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end of the German Blitz 8 months one

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week and 3 Days Later huge parts of

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Britain's industrial hotland had been

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devastated as many as 200,000 British

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people over overwhelmingly civilians

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were dead or wounded whole streets were

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wiped out shipyards factories Railway

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infrastructure and even Parliament were

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badly damaged and yet we never did

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surrender when Mr Churchill told his

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cabinet colleagues many shifting

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uneasily in their chairs that not until

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he and they lay there on the cabinet

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room floor choking on their own blood

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would they succumb he really meant it

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one man Lord Alan Watson CBE has

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specialized in this endlessly

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fascinating subject and he has a new

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book Churchill's legacy two speeches to

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save the world and I'm glad to say he

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joins us now on the Sputnik Lord Watson

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welcome uh to you we'll come to your

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book and the uh matters there in in a

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moment but as this is the anniversary of

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the beginning of the blitz on London

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when londoners despite this

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extraordinary bombardment by and large

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kept a stiff upper lip kept calm carried

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on and never dreamt of surrendering uh

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to the uh Slaughter how much of that in

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your view was due to the leadership of

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Winston Churchill Churchill was decisive

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uh I think one of the reasons he was so

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important was that it was unimaginable

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to him that Britain would surrender and

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certainly Britain would never surrender

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unless they were beaten to the ground

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beaten to pulp and you quoted what he

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said to his cabinet members many of whom

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were not very happy to hear that

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definitely shifted on very Shifty you

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know putting on their tin hats but the

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fact is uh he was absolutely confident

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in the ability of the British people and

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of Britain to resist and that's of

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course what they did the other thing is

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his rhetoric his speeches there's no

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doubt that the speeches he made in 1940

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had huge impact and they're of course

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world famous and everybody knows them

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fight on the beaches and fight in the

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streets and all that and uh I think

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people were having had no real

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leadership not knowing what was actually

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going to happen suddenly to hear the

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this voice making it absolutely clear

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that the determination was there I think

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it was very important for people like me

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or someone specifically like me of part

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Irish

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leftwing uh it's very difficult for

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people to understand my admiration for

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church young my stand is that whatever

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he did before or for that matter

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whatever he did

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afterwards if not for that moment and

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that stand by that

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man well we'd be conducting this uh

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discussion in German and the entire

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history of the world would be completely

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different yes and he knew that he was

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standing at that Al point in history he

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was well aware of that and you remember

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he said that I feel that the whole of my

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life has been a preparation for this

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moment and so indeed it was so he knew

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what the odds were it's not that he was

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romantic about it I mean he'd looked

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into the abyss he knew what could happen

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but he was absolutely determined and I

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think his ability to communicate the

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speeches that he made and as you know

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I've been writing about the speeches

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after the second world war 194 46 uh

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they play a huge role in the world and

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unesco's now actually recognized these

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speeches as being um Testaments of

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Freedom uh equal historically if you

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like to Magna carter and other things so

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George's admiration for Churchill is

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such that we have a large picture of

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Churchill in our dining room wall that

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is next to chear and and you in but um

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it's unknown really amongst the left and

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I just wonder why why do the left hate

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him so much apart from him being a Tor I

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don't know that the left really does

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hate him so much I mean the fact is one

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of his most stalwart allies in 1940 was

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Ernie bevon the Trade union leader and

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historically if you look at the debates

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in that cabinet which were so decisive

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in June 1940 the labor party's support

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for what he was trying to do was

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absolutely clear she's talking about

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people to the left of er B I know that

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but uh it's true that he had a very

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checkered uh past but let's not uh uh

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take up more time on that because I want

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to turn to your book which is a terrific

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uh volume it's here and in the United

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States and it's dealing with just two

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speeches after he had left office when

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most people think well Churchill really

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finished in 1945 there's a huge human

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drama here I mean Churchill leaves potan

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and um there it is you know there's

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there's an apocryphal story which you

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will allow me to tell I suppose that

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when he left poab uh Marshall Stalin

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said to him not to worry because as he

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said I have never lost an

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election so there we are that was true I

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think that was true but um the fact is

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he fell from this great height he

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expressed it in terms of altitude he he

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dropped from 38,000 ft to ground level

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and his morale was absolutely Shattered

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by his election defeat in

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1945 which he brought partly on himself

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I mean he did not fight a good election

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campaign but the fact is he was out and

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he said to Lord Moran who was his doctor

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it would be better that I were dead and

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he also said the Flies are gathering on

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the corpse he was his morale was

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shattered and then this extraordinary

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thing happens he's sitting in Chartwell

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and his a de comp puts a letter in front

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of him from a college that nobody

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actually had heard of Westminster

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College Fulton Missouri and the bottom

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of the letter it invites him to go there

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get an honorary degree make a speech and

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down the bottom in handwriting from the

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new president of the United States

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Truman is this sentence which says this

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is a fine College in my home state if

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you come I will introduce you and

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Churchill immediately thinks that means

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18 hours in a train with the new

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president of the United States

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so of course he accepts and the speech

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is made and it is highly dramatic and

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what Churchill was saying in the Fulton

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speech it's now known as the Iron

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Curtain Speech but if you really look at

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the speech he's actually saying a very

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interesting thing he's saying peace is

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possible but peace has to be in Europe

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peace has to be based on a recognition

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of equality and a respect

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and that means strength because the

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Russians respect strength and indeed

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they do they have it and they always

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have and uh so what he was arguing was

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that America and Britain ought to make

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it clear to the Soviet Union that they

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had a position and they were going to

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stand on it and if there was any uh

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intrusion into Western Europe there

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would be real trouble and at that point

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of course the United States had a

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nuclear Monopoly didn't last very long

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but they had it and so that's what he

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was proposing the the speech was hugely

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controversial in America the roselt

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family didn't like it at all and when

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Winston left New York there were 4,000

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demonstrators saying no war Winston you

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know things like I would have been one

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of those you would have been there with

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your P I have absolutely no doubt but

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anyway he sails away and

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um the drama then really unfolds it's

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extraordinary inside the Tory party

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there were people who really wanted him

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out and Lord Salsbury was one of them

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and of course Anthony Eden was desperate

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to get into number 10 you see and they

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were going to give him a dinner party

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and say well Winston great speech and

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all that but you know what you really

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ought to do is make speeches like that

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not lead the opposition in Parliament

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which is boring really and you know

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Anthony's here and he's very happy to

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take over and of course this afternoon

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this afternoon and Winston's the sap has

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risen you see and uh he the controversy

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has sparked him and he's already said

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the ship is delayed by 4 hours going

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into Southampton and by then he's

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already said to the media I am going to

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fight the next election you see and I

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will get aty out of Downing Street wow

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but then he makes he makes the second

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speech six months later in zerck

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Switzerland and what I think I hope is

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an important contribution to the history

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out of what I've written is that I've

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made the connection between these two

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speeches Fulton Missouri and zir now why

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when Winston was in the United States to

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make the first speech he had a second

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task which the British government had

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given him and they were saying to him

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for God's sake Winston persuade the

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Americans to renew Len lease were broke

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we bust the damage that you described at

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the beginning we've got to restore it

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they must give us some money they must

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lend us money and uh he got nowhere with

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that absolutely nowhere despite all his

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networking on the hill and everything

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else they all said absolutely not

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and I think because he was half American

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he got what the Europeans would have to

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do if they were going to untap American

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generosity and that was they had to

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actually get their act together

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themselves so in Zur he gets up and he

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says it's wonderful you know he's got

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the solemn Swiss audience in front of

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him and he says I shall startle

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you we have got to have a kind of United

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States of Europe and it has to be led by

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a partnership between France and German

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September 1946 theber trials going on

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can you imagine amazing the go goes

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apoplectic apoplectic it's just as

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controversial as the first speech but

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the truth is that in a way you can say

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that these two speeches kickstarted a

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process and I've argued that one of

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which leads in effect to Nato and the

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Western Alliance but the other leads

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perhaps more significantly in the end

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historically to the col and Steel

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Community to the Marshall Plan and to

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all of that so these are speeches Tove

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the world to the indeed to the European

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Union I'll tell you what I would be a

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taker for the United States of Europe I

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campaigned against the European Union

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there' be a taker for a Democratic

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elected United States me too we both do

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that Lord Watson you're a fascinating

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man it's a fascinating book the very

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best of luck with it and thanks for

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coming on the SP much coming up next

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when Adam and Eve ate the apple against

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instructions we all know what happened

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next when Ireland took just a little

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nibble at the Apple well don't miss

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it welcome back to Sputnik the

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right-wing government in Ireland is in a

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real pickle over Apple sweetheart tax

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arrangements made with the giant

274
00:11:54,560 --> 00:11:59,560
multinational Apple Corporation have

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been ruled by the European Commission to

276
00:11:59,560 --> 00:12:04,839
be illegal state aid and have ordered

277
00:12:02,560 --> 00:12:08,760
the Sovereign government in Dublin to

278
00:12:04,839 --> 00:12:13,360
recover a staggering 13 billion E from

279
00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:16,040
Apple Plus another €6 billion EUR in

280
00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:18,320
interest it is just one of the average

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00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:21,040
minority government's many crisis and

282
00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:23,519
may yet bring it down joining us now is

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00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:25,920
the General Secretary of the connley

284
00:12:23,519 --> 00:12:28,440
association Michael carty Michael

285
00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:31,440
welcome on board James connley after

286
00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:34,199
whom you're Association is named would

287
00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:38,720
be turning in his grave wouldn't he at

288
00:12:34,199 --> 00:12:42,320
the idea uh that the Irish people were

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00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:44,959
led by a government that said to a giant

290
00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:46,639
multinational corporation actually we

291
00:12:44,959 --> 00:12:49,199
don't want your tax money and we're

292
00:12:46,639 --> 00:12:51,920
going to fight anybody who tries to make

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us take it I suppose from James Conley's

294
00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:55,120
perspective I think what would have

295
00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:57,760
riled him more would be having an

296
00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:59,680
external force force outside of Ireland

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00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:03,399
not accountable to any of the taxpayers

298
00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:05,839
in Ireland um telling the Irish

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00:13:03,399 --> 00:13:07,920
government how it should run its

300
00:13:05,839 --> 00:13:09,560
taxation policy is not a competency of

301
00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:12,160
the European Union the European

302
00:13:09,560 --> 00:13:14,560
commission has has no place in telling

303
00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:16,800
uh the Irish government to do that and

304
00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:18,680
this essentially is a power grab by

305
00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:22,320
technocrats in Brussels it's happening

306
00:13:18,680 --> 00:13:24,720
in a wider wider political context uh

307
00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:27,320
post brexit context for example but I

308
00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:29,600
think from connell's politics that

309
00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,639
external interference in the Affairs of

310
00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:32,600
Ireland would have been something that

311
00:13:30,639 --> 00:13:35,000
angered him more well he would curse

312
00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:37,279
both these things would he obviously

313
00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:39,760
he'd curs the fact that Ireland was so

314
00:13:37,279 --> 00:13:42,000
Craven towards a multinational

315
00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:44,560
corporation that it allowed them to

316
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:47,199
operate on its soil and didn't Levy a

317
00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:50,399
proper rate of tax on them and as you've

318
00:13:47,199 --> 00:13:53,240
just said denounce the

319
00:13:50,399 --> 00:13:55,920
supranational uh dictating uh by the

320
00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:58,560
European Union we're I mean I'm we are

321
00:13:55,920 --> 00:14:00,480
no big fans obviously of Brussels either

322
00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:02,839
but but this is in fact they're quite

323
00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:04,560
right on this position right it it is

324
00:14:02,839 --> 00:14:06,759
really ridiculous is a paradox isn't it

325
00:14:04,560 --> 00:14:08,639
Michael I mean we we campaign to leave

326
00:14:06,759 --> 00:14:10,160
the European Union but on this the

327
00:14:08,639 --> 00:14:11,880
European Union is right and The

328
00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:14,880
Sovereign government is wrong it's quite

329
00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:17,040
a difficult question um in that look 19

330
00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,800
billion euros the 13 billion plus the

331
00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:20,519
interest would obviously be of enormous

332
00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:22,240
value to the people of Ireland

333
00:14:20,519 --> 00:14:25,680
especially when they've been Laden with

334
00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:28,120
64 billion of uh banking debt by the

335
00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:30,320
European Union uh they've gone through a

336
00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:32,800
massive a project but people shouldn't

337
00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:34,600
be misled into thinking that this 19

338
00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:37,040
billion is going to appear in the form

339
00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:39,480
of new hospitals or services that have

340
00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:41,279
being CAU being rein could if the Irish

341
00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:45,360
people elected a government that was of

342
00:14:41,279 --> 00:14:46,839
that mind it could but I and the cony

343
00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,880
Association would defend the right of

344
00:14:46,839 --> 00:14:51,399
the Irish government to appeal against a

345
00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:53,639
decision of the European commission to

346
00:14:51,399 --> 00:14:55,639
in an area where the European commission

347
00:14:53,639 --> 00:14:57,120
doesn't have the competency to do that

348
00:14:55,639 --> 00:14:58,880
with all respect to you I'm not sure

349
00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:01,440
you're right about that the the the

350
00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:04,440
European commission is right that Apple

351
00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:07,360
was acting both as a resident and a

352
00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:09,880
non-resident uh participant in uh the

353
00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:12,639
economy in Ireland so I don't think any

354
00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:14,120
appeal will be successful my

355
00:15:12,639 --> 00:15:15,399
understanding and this is just from

356
00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:17,759
having a looked at briefing papers

357
00:15:15,399 --> 00:15:19,839
produced by De octus in Dublin is that

358
00:15:17,759 --> 00:15:22,160
the Irish government recognized that

359
00:15:19,839 --> 00:15:24,519
there was a mismatch in the taxation

360
00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:26,240
arrangements for Apple between its tax

361
00:15:24,519 --> 00:15:28,480
status in America and in Ireland which

362
00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:30,279
led the company to be stateless you know

363
00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,759
which which is not even a flag of

364
00:15:30,279 --> 00:15:33,000
convenience no it's it's something

365
00:15:31,759 --> 00:15:36,240
that's essentially they didn't even

366
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:38,240
treat Ireland like Liberia used to be

367
00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:39,680
treated by the owners of tankers that's

368
00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:41,759
it it's an incredible arrangement and

369
00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:43,399
something any transnational Monopoly

370
00:15:41,759 --> 00:15:45,199
would would seek an arrangement like

371
00:15:43,399 --> 00:15:48,240
that now Irish government claims have

372
00:15:45,199 --> 00:15:51,000
addressed that in legislative terms to

373
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:53,240
ensure it won't happen again but I think

374
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:55,519
the key issue is and it's a difficult

375
00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:57,000
one as I say because of the question of

376
00:15:55,519 --> 00:15:58,600
of this money that people think is going

377
00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:01,079
to sort of rain down on top of them and

378
00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:03,120
Maryland now you have the fact that the

379
00:16:01,079 --> 00:16:05,519
decision's been made abroad where there

380
00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:07,759
hasn't been uh the European commission

381
00:16:05,519 --> 00:16:09,880
doesn't have a competency for taxation

382
00:16:07,759 --> 00:16:11,880
okay now it desires one and it pushes

383
00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:16,079
for one it doesn't have a competency for

384
00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:18,759
that also the fact that the the profits

385
00:16:16,079 --> 00:16:21,279
which this taxation supposedly Ares from

386
00:16:18,759 --> 00:16:23,440
are derived from other operations and in

387
00:16:21,279 --> 00:16:27,279
the commission ruling it says that other

388
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:30,279
countries can can claim their portion of

389
00:16:27,279 --> 00:16:33,600
those taxes that including America other

390
00:16:30,279 --> 00:16:35,240
uh EU countries and US countries so when

391
00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:38,319
it isn't actually profit generated in

392
00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:42,000
Ireland and but stray from abroad well

393
00:16:38,319 --> 00:16:46,839
uh you you know that Apple has something

394
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:49,880
like 300 billion euros in the bank never

395
00:16:46,839 --> 00:16:52,880
mind its assets as a whole they could

396
00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:55,319
pay this money without noticing a in

397
00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:57,480
their bank statement for me and I have

398
00:16:55,319 --> 00:16:59,759
zero Sympathy for the Apple corporation

399
00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:02,279
i' I'd like to make that clear C you V

400
00:16:59,759 --> 00:17:04,640
absolutely no sympathy for them but the

401
00:17:02,279 --> 00:17:08,720
issue here for me as as an Irish man as

402
00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:10,760
a Democrat isign is who decides what

403
00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,720
levels of tax are paid in Ireland and

404
00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:15,160
that should be the Irish people well of

405
00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:17,760
course it it Ireland is responsible for

406
00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:21,079
its own tax rate but the commission has

407
00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:24,319
ruled that this was in effect state aid

408
00:17:21,079 --> 00:17:26,919
uh that transfer pricing was in play and

409
00:17:24,319 --> 00:17:31,000
that basically the company was running

410
00:17:26,919 --> 00:17:33,400
rings around all taxation uh

411
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:35,919
jurisdictions and with the connivance of

412
00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:37,360
a right-wing government in Ireland but

413
00:17:35,919 --> 00:17:41,440
you're right to say you're right to

414
00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:43,640
point to this uh very weird dichotomy

415
00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:47,400
that you the Conley Association as an

416
00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:50,480
anti- capitalist uh organization in your

417
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:53,840
bones Conley said that running a green

418
00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:55,960
flag over up over Dublin Castle uh

419
00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:58,880
without changing anything else would be

420
00:17:55,960 --> 00:18:00,799
no Independence at all what we've got is

421
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:04,400
a green flag with a green flag

422
00:18:00,799 --> 00:18:07,120
government that actually acts as a slave

423
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:08,720
to the to the multinational corporations

424
00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:11,080
there's a huge difficulty with with how

425
00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:13,000
Ireland is governed and the the nature

426
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:16,720
of the government there at the moment

427
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:18,200
now I as as I say I I would never be uh

428
00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,200
and the cony Association wouldn't be in

429
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,640
the position of living in Britain and

430
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:22,880
telling people in Ireland what type of

431
00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:25,559
government they should elect be it

432
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:28,080
leftwing or rightwing but the fact of

433
00:18:25,559 --> 00:18:29,159
the matter is the Irish State at the

434
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:31,760
moment

435
00:18:29,159 --> 00:18:34,320
is quite dependent on foreign direct

436
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:37,000
investment to the point of almost of of

437
00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:38,679
no return without radical change and

438
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,720
that comes about from Ireland's Colonial

439
00:18:38,679 --> 00:18:43,320
history it comes out about because of

440
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:44,960
the partition of of the island it' be

441
00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:46,480
very difficult to establish for example

442
00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:48,200
a protectionist economic model when you

443
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,679
have citizens living in an occupied

444
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:54,000
territory who would effectively be

445
00:18:49,679 --> 00:18:55,320
punished by it and um Now by membership

446
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,960
of the European Union which of course

447
00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:58,760
Ireland was cohered into being a member

448
00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:01,000
of through the Anglo Irish Free Trade

449
00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:02,679
Agreement and a secret Clause later

450
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:04,960
acknowledged with aish t-shock that

451
00:19:02,679 --> 00:19:07,159
forced Ireland into the common market

452
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:09,080
and Ireland then comes into a position

453
00:19:07,159 --> 00:19:10,520
where it's entered a second active Union

454
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:13,480
both active unions have destroyed what

455
00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:16,559
little industry the country had and is

456
00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:19,080
is now in a position where even even to

457
00:19:16,559 --> 00:19:21,880
to beg for foreign direct investment

458
00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:24,120
that you have an outside force again

459
00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:26,640
saying to it look you're not allowed to

460
00:19:24,120 --> 00:19:30,520
do it uh your particular way well what's

461
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:34,480
the uh impact of all of this uh going to

462
00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:37,159
be on the Irish political scene uh it's

463
00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:40,159
a minority government uh a very

464
00:19:37,159 --> 00:19:42,640
unpopular one everything from water

465
00:19:40,159 --> 00:19:45,080
pricing to the collapse of the National

466
00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:48,080
Health Service due to the austerity

467
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:49,880
imposed by the European Union uh

468
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:53,080
insisted upon by the European Union

469
00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:56,720
after the crash and so on is the

470
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:59,080
government going to survive and uh is

471
00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:02,120
there an alternative on offer for the

472
00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:04,000
Irish people like another IR exit

473
00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:06,440
following the British brexit well I

474
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:09,880
think IR exit as it's as it's becoming

475
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:11,760
known um first time I've heard that is

476
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:13,480
is really the only the only plausible

477
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:15,120
option available now you have a

478
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:17,640
situation where at the moment even

479
00:20:15,120 --> 00:20:19,159
before article 50 has been invoked here

480
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,840
and from the association we believe it

481
00:20:19,159 --> 00:20:23,120
should be as soon as possible but you

482
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:26,159
have a situation where Ireland the Irish

483
00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:28,760
State the south is within the uro Zone

484
00:20:26,159 --> 00:20:31,480
it does 2third of its trade out the Euro

485
00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:34,480
zone so it does 2/3 of this trade with a

486
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:36,880
currency that uh it it has no influence

487
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:38,480
over the value of when Britain leaves it

488
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,760
leaves the European Union it'll do

489
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,600
two-thirds of its trade outside of the

490
00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:43,320
European Union it's the only country in

491
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:46,080
that situation Ireland is now a net

492
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:47,720
contributor to the EU so any money

493
00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,679
Ireland receives back is only Irish

494
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:52,400
money being recycled through Brussels we

495
00:20:49,679 --> 00:20:53,840
pay for a few technocrats along the way

496
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:55,559
um we lose billions in fishing

497
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:58,400
industries so major political issues in

498
00:20:55,559 --> 00:21:00,159
Ireland that that there Mass

499
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:02,440
mobilization around at the moment

500
00:21:00,159 --> 00:21:05,960
opposition to water charges opposition

501
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:08,760
to bin charges um The Campaign against

502
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:11,120
homelessness to build social housing all

503
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:13,760
of these things are restricted if not

504
00:21:11,120 --> 00:21:15,679
dictated by European Union directives

505
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:17,679
Mass surveillance of email Irish

506
00:21:15,679 --> 00:21:20,080
parliamentarians having to run private

507
00:21:17,679 --> 00:21:23,080
member bills past the European Central

508
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:24,960
Bank to check their economic competence

509
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:27,640
before they put to the Irish Parliament

510
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:29,640
all of these issues are a you is the

511
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:30,840
elephant the room and when anything to

512
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,559
do with Irish politics has been

513
00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:35,000
discussed has going to have massive

514
00:21:32,559 --> 00:21:36,960
implications through the peace process

515
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:40,000
brexit will if not if it isn't followed

516
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:42,440
by our exit huge implications this would

517
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:44,200
paradoxically of course 100 years on

518
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:48,679
from Eastern

519
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:51,760
196 bring Ireland back uh closer to

520
00:21:48,679 --> 00:21:54,880
Britain uh that's another of the the

521
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:56,919
many strange dichotomies in this story

522
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:59,600
it's it's extremely strange in that

523
00:21:56,919 --> 00:22:01,720
we've had the entire na celebrating uh

524
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:03,679
1916 and the Centenary of the

525
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:05,240
Proclamation of the Irish Republic

526
00:22:03,679 --> 00:22:07,480
talking about unfettered control of

527
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:09,159
Irish Destinies the right of the people

528
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,799
of Ireland to the ownership of of

529
00:22:09,159 --> 00:22:12,799
Ireland and yet an issue like the

530
00:22:10,799 --> 00:22:15,320
European Union isn't being discussed

531
00:22:12,799 --> 00:22:17,720
when we look at um say future

532
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:19,960
anglo-irish relations in the context of

533
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:22,440
post brexit you have a situation where

534
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:24,400
following the end of the Cold War you

535
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:26,240
had the space created where the British

536
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:29,559
military didn't need to control Northern

537
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:31,159
Ireland as Atlantic route to Europe you

538
00:22:29,559 --> 00:22:33,240
had the peace process to Good Friday

539
00:22:31,159 --> 00:22:35,400
agreement follow on from that now if you

540
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:38,520
have a situation where Northern Ireland

541
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:40,200
remains in the UK but outside of the EU

542
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:43,679
the south is in the EU in an ever

543
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:46,240
increasing common security and defense

544
00:22:43,679 --> 00:22:48,120
policy Britain there will certainly be

545
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:51,039
interests in Britain in maintaining a

546
00:22:48,120 --> 00:22:53,720
foothold in Ireland for for security

547
00:22:51,039 --> 00:22:56,760
reasons it's a the

548
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:59,480
amount all the different levels to this

549
00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:01,440
debate now it's as I say incredibly

550
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:03,080
complex but for Ireland economically

551
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:05,080
politically and in terms of Irish

552
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:06,679
unification the only option is to leave

553
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:10,520
the European Union the European union

554
00:23:06,679 --> 00:23:14,039
now is one of the most strong Fetters to

555
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:17,360
Irish unity and it's an incredible thing

556
00:23:14,039 --> 00:23:19,200
when that that is rarely discussed in in

557
00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:22,039
relation to the is I'll raise a glass of

558
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:23,960
water to that Michael Cy of the Conley

559
00:23:22,039 --> 00:23:26,600
Association thank you very much indeed

560
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,600
for joining

561
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,279
us

562
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:32,240
and now it's your turn to tell us what

563
00:23:30,279 --> 00:23:34,880
you think through the portals of social

564
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:38,000
media what's rattling G so our show on

565
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:41,159
Churchill uh sted up quite a debate on

566
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:44,600
social media we had as we expected lots

567
00:23:41,159 --> 00:23:47,480
of left people leftwing people really

568
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:50,679
really hating him just like our glass

569
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:53,360
galok Singh he says up till their deaths

570
00:23:50,679 --> 00:23:55,840
My dundonian World War I veteran

571
00:23:53,360 --> 00:23:58,200
grandparents would spit At The Mention

572
00:23:55,840 --> 00:24:00,240
Of Churchill's name well and D

573
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:02,480
especially because he was the MP there

574
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,760
and he got thrown out his car was

575
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:07,640
overturned and he promised to see the

576
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:10,880
grass grow on the streets of dundi so

577
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:14,039
he's HED there on um Ireland and apple

578
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:17,520
David Beckham 4M says Ireland gave of

579
00:24:14,039 --> 00:24:20,320
oil rights and agreed with apple 500 tax

580
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:23,799
in every million pound Ireland is going

581
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:27,320
backwards although as was explained uh

582
00:24:23,799 --> 00:24:28,640
we we are here in a a gigantic Paradox

583
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:32,840
the Europe

584
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:35,320
is correct to say that allowing these

585
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:37,760
kind of sweetheart deals will merely

586
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:39,880
create a race to the bottom and then

587
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:42,880
eventually a race out of the European

588
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:46,799
Union by these companies alog together

589
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:49,520
at the same time did Ireland rise and

590
00:24:46,799 --> 00:24:52,520
fight for independence in order to be

591
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:54,799
dictated to not by London but by

592
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:57,480
Brussels and that's all the tweets for

593
00:24:54,799 --> 00:24:59,320
today which alas means that's the end of

594
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:02,399
the show but you can stay in touch with

595
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:04,799
us on social media on Twitter at rtor

596
00:25:02,399 --> 00:25:07,320
Sputnik or on Facebook Sputnik on Russia

597
00:25:04,799 --> 00:25:11,080
today it's goodbye from me gri and from

598
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:24,080
me George Galloway it's been

599
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:27,080
[Music]

600
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,080
marvelous